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The Rife Machine Report
|Dr. Gonin, Dr. Rife, Crane and Marsh Paper
This paper is a transcript of an audio tape recording made on May 28, 1956 by Dr. Rife, B. Winter Gonin and John Crane. It was recorded at 4246 Pepper Drive, San Diego, California.
Re-transcribed by www.rifevideos.com. Copyright 2008.
The tape was turned on in the middle of their conversation.
1. GONIN: It seemed to be a typical carcinoma. X-rays of the pelvis, spine and rib cage showed generalized metastases of the bones of the pelvis, the spine and in all of the ribs as well as the necks in both femurs (words missing). Date given on tape but not written down for transcript) on that date was 35 milligrams per 100 CC's. An I.V. was installed and he was started on (stibesterol?) five (MG’s.) four times a day which he continued until the 25th of May, 1956. On that day the catheter was removed and (words missing) milligrams. Because of the short duration of his stay in the United States, it was thought best that he return to England provided that the stibesterol therapy has caused sufficient regression of the growth to permit satisfactory urination. On the 29th of May he reported he (words missing) and on that day he carried only 50 CC's of residual (urine?) He was told to return to England, continue his stibesterol, 5 milligrams a day and the (words missing) 5.5 grams twice a day. In view of the (bone?) involvement, it is possible he may avoid prostate surgery as long as the stibesterol remained effective. Blood (words missing) nitrogen was 23 milligrams on the 5th, no, on the 26th of May. Now, what you think about that? There must be 30 or 40 metastases, if what he said is true.
2. RIFE: I didn’t see the X-rays. You had X-rays here?
3. GONIN: Yes, eight of them.
4. RIFE: You didn't get them?
5. GONIN: I saw one of them and I say it's fibrosis of the (periosteum?)
6. RIFE: It sounds more like it to me than any metastases.
7. GONIN: How can there be so many metastases and no (word missing)?
8. RIFE: No.
9. GONIN: no (word missing) and you say there's nothing in the prostate.
10. RIFE: No.
11. GONIN: There must be a (word missing) somewhere. (This missing word is the same term he used in the above statements)
12. RIFE: Well, there isn't anything that was anywhere approached to be alarming in that (urine?) because we found no pus cells, no blood cells.
13. CRANE: This is from Dr. (Millinex?)
14. GONIN: Yes.
15. RIFE: I have often said that you can take and put an X-ray plate in the viewing box and you can line up ten radiologists there and I'll almost eat my hat if you can find two of them to agree on the thing. You know what I mean because there is so much misconception in those things. For instance, if you in your condition have heavy lymph, you know coming from most anything like you have there; you would see shadows in there. It would change the shadowgraph, you know.
16. GONIN: Yes.
17. RIFE: You see, by the difference in the density of the tissue or the material, but as far as actually showing anything is concerned that wouldn’t mean a thing to me unless there was an actual real bone involvement that you could see, you know. The only thing I ever found an X-ray worth (is) for fractures. They'll show a fracture but for reading this other stuff, I don't go much on them. (Snapped his fingers)
18. GONIN: No.
19. RIFE: Because I’ve seen many of them, thousands of them in fact, where you put up a "chest" there you know. Well, one man will say it's this, another man will say it's this and something else and the other. And it all depends on for instance, if you use a "buckie", which they use on most of these X-rays. You're familiar with a "buckie", aren’t you? It's a kind of a thing like a venetian blind that they put in between the patient and the film to keep the direct rays off. They can regulate it. It's like a venetian blind. They call it a "buckie."
20. GONIN: No, I haven't seen that.
21. RIFE: Well, they use them a great deal and now it all depends on the density of your shadowgraph, which is all your X-ray is of course; it all depends on the angle they've set those louvers to get the thing through. They claim that it keeps away a kick-back, you know.
22. GONIN: Yes
23. RIFE: They're detrimental as far as I'm concerned. And then they have what they call "filters" that they put in, in back of the film in the (word missing) you see. And those are very similar to this beaded screen. Those are for the purpose of getting a reaction back through while you get, lots of times, a double exposure from those things if you have a high intensity on your X-ray where it's booming through there and it hits that thing and it comes back and it comes back and it makes what you might say a double exposure.
24. GONIN: The point I was trying to raise is this, if there is any truth in what he says, ought I to go on with the cancer ray [Rife Ray Machine], should I accept his opinion or not?
25. RIFE: Well, there is one thing I can say absolutely and that is, that, it will do no harm.
26. GONIN: For BX and sarcomas.
27. RIFE: Yeah. But it will do you no harm. It's not like a continuous X-ray or anything of that sort, you see, there's no x-ray in this. We don't use enough power. Now this outfit here, the way we have it boosted up here, now with an extreme lot of power behind the actual output that is coming out of the thing, why, I suppose, in time you might be able to expose an X-ray film with that, but not with one of these (50 to 100 watts). We couldn't use this, or I wouldn't want to use this, or I wouldn't want to use this instrument here the way it is "souped up" there for this salt water proposition to treat a patient with.
28. GONIN: No.
29. RIFE: You can get beyond the limit.
30. GONIN: Yes, quite.
31. CRANE: That’s what Dr. Yale did, you see, he stepped it up and up and up until he was actually getting into the X-ray range which is powerful.
32. RIFE: When Vern Thompson used to go down there and take care of Yale's machines [Rife Machine], when he began stepping them up and so, he used to slip a little dental film in his hip pocket, you know, with a key or something behind it and he would work around those things for a few hours and he found out that he had almost an X-ray out of it. Where you get up into that extreme power, oh yes, that is not good. With the power that is used in these there is absolutely no harm because I had my microscope here, I had my tube right here in front of it, oh, about 11 or 12 inches away from the slide in the microscope and here I was with this thing all around like that and that tube going here and my specimens under the microscope year after year tuning that thing and it never harmed me any, where X-ray, of course, would.
33. GONIN: Then you suggest that there would be no use of me bombarding myself, there would be no point in it?
34. CRANE: Well, for preventative measure, it would be very good. And if you want to assure yourself that this condition will be eliminated, you could take these treatments and whether it actually exists or not, you could be assured that the condition would be eliminated, you see.
35. GONIN: Yes, well, that would be Band 3.
36. CRANE: Yes, it's marked on that chart that I gave you there. In fact, if you desire to stay over a month or two we would be glad to treat you right here.
37. GONIN: Yes, but we can't do that, unfortunately. I am not the master, but the servant of circumstances. That (some man's name. sounded like "Young’s"), I haven't put in the (word missing) address, because he is a great personal friend of my wife and she thinks from what he said and from what we discussed that it would be better to let it go as it is. Let him write to you, isn't that it?
38. MRS. GOININ: Well, you see, we discussed it with the (word missing) and we discussed it with you and think it is best to let the women do it. I think it is at least. Because you see he knows nothing about it. It is better to let the women tell him the results of it, isn't it?
39. GONIN: Oh, he does know something about it.
40. MRS. GOININ: Well, yes, but he knows also that all radionics (words missing) and I think it's best for them because I did understand from their conversation someone who has a girl suffering from T.B. and that's why I think they are bound to look you up.
41. CRANE: Hmm, hmm.
42. MRS. GOININ: And that's why I think it would be a mistake to approach him on something that we've not discussed with him. He wasn't there when we discussed it.
43. GONIN: Yes, but I spoke to him several times when we were having dinner.
44. MRS. GOININ: But we didn't ask him if we may put him in touch with anyone about it.
45. GONIN: It would be better to leave it like that, then, wouldn't it?
46. CRANE: I contacted two of the newspaper, I think it was two days ago. Did you want to say something about that?
47. GONIN: Well, I haven't thought of it, but are there any useful things I could say?
48. CRANE: You might mention that you are taking this equipment back to England with you and that you are going to be the advisor to this fund of 250,000 pounds that you might favorably consider us after you got over there.
49. GONIN: Yes, I wonder if that fund has been issued yet.
50. CRANE: Mr. and Mrs. Marsh, l’d like to introduce you to Dr. Gonin and Mrs. Gonin.
51. MARSH: Dr. Gonin, it's a pleasure.
Exchange of "How-do-you-do's"
The conversation following is a duplication of the "Gonin, Seiner, Crane" tape starting at the middle of page 15 and continuing through to the top portion of page 22.
The following is the conversation which was cut off of the above mentioned tape:
52. MARSH: We have never forgotten from whence our help came.
53. GONIN: If one remembers that he is only a channel and has humility to bear that in mind all the time, there is a chance of progress, a chance of getting help.
54. MARSH: I'm not a religious fanatic, or anything of that sort but I definitely believe…
55. GONIN: If you live your religion, that's a great thing not to talk about it.
56. MARSH: I feel that Dr. Rife has been appointed to do this work.
57. GONIN: So do I. I have thought so for over 20 years. I am only a frail, human subject. I can't do more than I try.
58. MARSH: I know that's our problem, we're just frail human beings.
59. MRS. GONIN: It takes a number of people of one accord to kick up a (word missing) we're sticking together.
60. GONIN: I've got the courage of my convictions all right, John. But there's just one question in my mind. There's a question of the climate that we've never discussed you know. Do you think climate enters into it with us?
61. CRANE: Not a bit.
62. GONIN: You think it doesn't.
63. CRANE: Not a bit.
64. GONIN: You think these electronic (counters?) don't get damped down by wet weather?
65. CRANE: You can create a vibration whether it’s minus one hundred or minus four hundred degrees.
66. GONIN: And humidity has no effect on it:
67. CRANE: Not a bit.
68. MARSH: The fact of the matter is, we’re going to have to get out that fog removal instrument and set it up over in England and they’ll no longer have fogs. Isn't that right, doctor?
There was considerable conversation about fog, but not important and further conversation about wars.
69. MARSH: Why can’t people get together and love one another, instead of hating.
70. MRS. GONIN: Yes, look how they get together when there is a war, they’ll do anything for one another. Why don t we, when there's peace, do something for each other?
71. MARSH: Why is it that you need a war in order to have ways of living?
72. GONIN: Because the Prince of this world is not the Prince of peace.
73. MARSH: That is correct, sir. That is why.
74. MRS. GONIN: And they all say they are fighting for spiritual things but when it comes to the "sharing out", its very material.
75. MARSH: In other words, I'm going to love you because you're rich and I'm poor and as soon as you become poor…
76. MRS. GONIN: Yes, I'm looking for another rich friend.
77. MARSH: Well, I'm not interested in loving people for what they have. I've never gotten in the habit. Well, I will say this, personally with all my heart I think it is very possible and I don't know how far in the future it's going to be necessary. Unless people don't want their lives saved…
78. MRS. GONIN: Look, what we need is a number of highly-skilled medical men and a number of highly skilled electricians so that they can argue, one with another, on all their points. You'd be no good on arguing on electricity, would you?
79. GONIN: No.
80. MRS. GONIN: And mechanics...
81. MARSH: Did you ever give this any thought. I have given many weeks and months of time thinking about this item. I can understand why the American Medical Association doesn’t want that instrument on the market. One of the reasons is that it is going to prevent a lot of doctors from making a rich livelihood out of treating virus, bacteria, and fungi diseases because this is a cure for those. It will stop them. Now, if that is the case, the American Drug Syndicate will no longer need half of the drug stores, or a tenth of what they've got on the market today because all their shelves are loaded with products for correcting athlete's foot, breaking out of skin diseases and all that sort of thing, which this is a cure for. Now, if that is the case, you can understand if you are an M.D. and if you make a livelihood by treating people who are cancer victims, and we found a cure for the cancer you would no longer have a victim would you?
82. GONIN: No.
83. MARSH: Therefore, you would be out of a job. Now, the doctors say, "now, wait a minute, you're inventing a way for me to no longer have a livelihood." But how about producing these? And how about producing things for the peace of a country and for making people happy instead of unhappy? Now, we're designing ways of retaining life. And yet I'm working and John is working on guided missiles, on bigger and better ways of taking people's lives. Holy Smoke, what a mixed up mess we're in. Now we're earning our living by producing bigger and better methods…
84. GONIN: Of killing your brother.
85. MARSH: That's right, for eliminating my brother.
86. GONIN: And the drug houses in London last year made a net profit of over 9 million pounds on vaccines alone! This instrument would knock it all out.
87. MARSH: The medical profession has a moral obligation as well as a financial one.
88. GONIN: Do they evaluate it?
89. MARSH: No, sir.
90. GONIN: That’s the point. You see, you're going to touch their pockets. You see, they have got to pay their debts, "the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker” and they can only do it by swindling their brother.
91. MARSH: That's right;.
92. GONIN: You've got to face human nature. In other words, you have to fight Satan, my friend.
93. MARSH: That is true. You have to fight Satan because that is where all of this upheaval is coming from.
94. GONIN: You see if you are going to deal with the spiritual question, at least this is the way it is in England, I can only speak as far as my country is concerned. In my country there is a great spirit of spiritual unrest. People are seeking everything, everywhere. They don't realize that when you open your mind to the reception of spirit you've got to be quite ready for the spirit of God or the spirit of evil. But do they choose God, none of them.
95. MARSH: Well, sir, you're right.
96. MRS. GONIN: Look, the way I understand that is, we'll live through the earth rays, from the rays from above. You're picking up the rays with this (the instrument) from somewhere, somehow or another and you're making up in the individual the missing ray or the weakened ray by treating them with this instrument.
97. MARSH: Well, not necessarily. You're using the God-given ray, through the electronic tube for the transmission of power, which is electronic or electric, for the purpose of killing or eliminating the virus or the bug or the germ or the plant life or growth, which is causing man a breakdown. In other words, that virus becomes evident in a person's body which does the damage. It either eats up or tears down, or builds up something which does not belong there which God did not intend for us to have in the first place.
98. GONIN: People often ask the question, why is there disease?
99. MRS. GONIN: Because of the breaking of the law concerning what we eat.
100. GONIN: It's a question of the soil.
101. MARSH: That's right. Man takes everything and never puts anything back. What can we expect? In Kansas it's as flat as this floor. You can't grow a weed in it because the wind blows it away. Why? Because man has chopped down all of the trees, he's never left a fence work or something up to protect the soil from being blown away, and he was so eager to make money from raising (wheat ?) and then he took from the ground and he never replenished the ground and so it became a dust bowl.
102. GONIN: He is beginning to learn at long last!
103. MARSH: Oh, yes, after so many ranchers and farmers have literally starved to death and their cattle all died and through great waste have they realized their great mistake. Why is it, man is born so stupid? And why is it, he wants to remain that way? He doesn't have a desire to even better himself
104. MRS. GONIN: He wants to get "sappier."
105. MARSH: That's right. He gets "sappier."
106. GONIN: We've got to become children again, you see.
107. MRS. GONIN: That's the advantage we have over you in England because all our lands are separated by hedges.
108. MARSH: Well, now that is a protection.
************************************************Side No. #1***********************************************
109. MARSH: Now these people who are doing the talking know so very little about what they are saying, because every country has its bad, every country has its good. Yet, at the same time why is it that our country doesn't make an attempt to want to coordinate their activities with other countries, if necessary, because there are many things which your country has which ours doesn't. And we shouldn’t get so self-reliant that we no longer need anybody. As long as we're living with people, we're going to have to get along with them.
110. MRS. GONIN: Your country and ours are "two of a tribe" countries that ought to stick together because they speak the same language and they understand the same things (that is a machine and that is a box, etc.). If the Russians came in, they'd….
111. GONIN: There is something much more important than that. Both countries are founded on the Bible.
112. MARSH: That is something we should never forget.
113. MRS. GONIN: That is all the Pilgrims had when they came over, the Bible. They had nothing else to read.
114. MARSH: My daughter, this morning, brought a book in to me, which was written on my ancestors, “John Marsh” the Pioneer." John Marsh, or John E. Marsh, which is my name, was an Earl in England of royal descent, from what I understand. And this book was written on how the original John Marsh came over from England in 1633, which wasn’t many years after the pilgrims came over, and he went to Harvard University. And how some of the Marsh’s went into ministry and some went into doctoring and some went into politics. One John Marsh came from the east and traveled out to San Diego and worked with PeoPeko, the governor here, making it possible for people who were migrating into this area to live peaceably among themselves and to prevent the Indians from coming in and stealing their horses and their cattle and so on. Now, PeoPeko was a Mexican governor who had dedicated his life to being the first governor of California. Now, according to this history, which I have a complete book of, all the people that originated in England and came over here and worked with PeoPeko and other governors to make this country on the west an inhabitable place for English-speaking peoples to have among the Indians, rather than to fight with them. But, of course, some of them had caused a great deal of trouble, with guns and liquor, and so forth which had caused more unhappiness and harm than good. My father, Marsh, came from England, my father's father, and my father's, father's, father's, father's name was John. It went way back, until I named my son Larry. And I don't know whether I'll be the dog of the family tree or not.
115. MARSH: I find this, doctor, that if you stick to your convictions and if you are honest in your heart and you do have love for your fellowman and you know you've only a certain length of time to live anyway and what you have materially you can't take with you, but with your mind and your heart and with your money and your willingness to work you can make a lot of things more than possible.
116. GONIN: Yes.
117. MARSH: It's too bad that we can't seemingly, in the United States find anyone who is willing to make it possible to help one another .
118. MRS. GONIN: Miserable creatures.
119. MARSH: Miserable, indeed.
120. GONIN: Well, their horizon is themselves.
121. MARSH: Right. They can see the end of their nose and no further.
Conversation following the above is a duplication of page 22 and page 23 of "Gonin, Crane, and Marsh’s Dr. Rife tape. The one tape was cut off and the following is the conversation which was not recorded on the one tape.
122. MRS. GONIN: My husband won't eat tomatoes raw, but he will eat them (cooked?).
123. CRANE: I think food is from one of two sources. Like Dr. Gonin says, it is either from a depleted soil or from a good soil. If it's from a good soil, it doesn't matter what it is, I think it is alright. If it's from bad soil, it doesn't matter what it is, I think it is no good.
124. MRS. GONIN: I'll tell you an experience of mine during the First World War. We had very nice carpets and we put them in store for a time and I couldn't understand why the store man, who kept the furniture, kept coming to me and asking me if I was going to use the carpets or would I like to sell them. I told him no, I didn't want to sell them. We were leasing this furnished house, but I should want them again. And he finally told me that I could get a very high price for these carpets, because we'd never get any more like that again. And I asked him why. And he said, because the wool had been properly fed that those carpets had been made of.
125. MARSH: Is that right?
126. MRS. GONIN: Yes, he said it was traceable to the wool on the animal in the beginning and that determined the quality of the carpet. And he said we'd never get them again, and it's true, we never have, have we?
127. GONIN: No.
128. MRS. GONIN: We never sold the carpets and we’ve still got them. We’ve had them over 40 years and they're still beautiful.
129. MARSH: We're extremely happy that you got to come over and we're even more happy that we've had the pleasure of meeting you.
130. MRS. GONIN: That's very nice of you.
131. MARSH: And we hope that it was not a wasted trip.
132. MRS. GONIN: No, indeed.
133. MARSH: We're very conscientious about our instrument and I’m very happy to be a part of this organization. And it is true I talk a lot and I like to talk about this instrument, to someone who is willing to listen.
134. MRS. GONIN: There is something that is not obvious to the ordinary being. We are two beings, a physical being and a spiritual being and we have desires for two different sets of things.
135. MARSH: That’s right. One is material and the other is spiritual.
136. MRS. GONIN: Yes, and we don’t have our….we believe in our creeds and our Bibles, we believe in all things visible and invisible.
137. MARSH: That is correct.
138. MRS. GONIN: But we always hope for the light to come here-after.
129. GONIN: People don’t realize that Heaven is here.
140. MRS. GONIN: All we've got is what we do today.
141. MARSH: That is correct. We can make it Heaven or Hell right here while we are still alive. We don’t have to wait until we drop dead to do it. And some people can be born today and live 90 years and will have left nothing, not anything in this world that is tangible, useful, or helpful to anyone.
142. MRS. GONIN: Or a memory.
143. MARSH: Or for anyone to remember after they are gone.
144. MRS. GONIN: That’s what we call the “living dead” aren’t they?
145. MRS. GONIN: Yes, gargoyles.
146. MARSH: Well, I like to paint beautiful pictures and if I ever come to England, I won’t leave my paint brushes at home.
147. MRS. GONIN: And that’s your other person, it isn’t your physical, it’s your inner person that does that, your second person.
148. GONIN: There are two of you!
149. MRS. GONIN: Music, all music and we don’t see color with our ordinary eye. We see color with our inner eye.
150. MARSH: That’s right, our mind’s eye.
151. MRS. GONIN: Yes, our mind’s eye. You see, singing and painting and all the arts are of the spirit.
152. MARSH: That is correct.
153. MRS. GONIN: Because when you paint you don’t know what you’re going to paint, do you. You look at something and you think you may even beautify it.
154. MRS. GONIN: Everything is relative to something else, no matter what it is.
155. GONIN: Are you going to give Mrs. Marsh any further treatments?
156. CRANE: Not unless she needs it and apparently she doesn’t.
157. MRS. MARSH: If I get to feeling bad, then I’ll come back and get another.
158. CRANE: I’m at her service if she wants me.
159. MRS. MARSH: Right now I don’t feel like I need any treatments.
160. CRANE: It seems doctor that when the blood stream is cleaned up and this is all out of it, it doesn’t come back very well.
161. GONIN: Not if she pays attention to her food.
162. MARSH: It is possible that if a person has had a malignant disease or growth of any kind it could return through getting the same germs from the same food.
163. RIFE: The metabolism (shift?) will do it.
164. MARSH: First of all in order to eliminate the virus we should purify the food in all of the warehouses in every part of the country.
165. GONIN: Right and the land, spray the land.
166. MARSH: And set one of these instruments, a powerful instrument whereby you could spread out for 800 to 1000 square miles and clean everything in the area.
167. GONIN: That’s it.
168. MRS. GONIN: Yes. And then put it in the cattle.
169. MARSH: Oh yes, the cattle, and clean up all the chickens, cattle, horses, sheep and everything, anything a man touches.
170. MRS. GONIN: Do you have "battery" hens?
171. MARSH: Yes.
172. MRS. GONIN: Now that’s not natural food, is it?
173. MARSH: No. And it’s poison.
174. GONIN: Do a few experiments yourself. Get a few cigarette boxes.
175. MARSH: Well, how are we going to teach people to eat?
176. GONIN: You can't! I've been trying for 50 years and have achieved nothing.
177. MARSH: Well, Dr. Rife and you then are practically blood brothers.
178. GONIN: He will be if he lives another 50 years.
179. MARSH: Brother Rife will probably not live that long, but I hope I can soak up some of his knowledge so I can go out and carry on the work, help to, after he is gone.
180. GONIN: Now, these little experiments that I was speaking about are obvious experiments because you can test your own visual senses on them. You can see them and smell them! Duplicate that in various places and you’ll get people who are, at any rate, interested. They will know why they are killing themselves.
181. MARSH: Yes and that is committing suicide.
182. GONIN: Exactly. We kill ourselves with our teeth.
183. MRS. GONIN: Yes, you dig your own grave, with your teeth. And look at all the people who have arthritis.
184. MARSH: Well, John (Crane) and I came to a conclusion a long time ago that we have wasted our time exquisitely well; in fact, we are expert time-wasters by working at Convair 8 hours a day doing nothing of constructive work. Not being happy in what we do because of knowing what the future will be, oh sure, we can make money, we have to make a living, we have to eat. But John and I would like to devote a lot of our time, if not all of it, in producing things which would help people to realize that the routine that they have been following for hundreds of years has been the wrong way and it’s about time that intelligent people start realizing that they should use the brain in their heads for something besides a hat rack or a separation between their ears and to listen to those who are learned, like you people. But people will probably go on making fools of them.
185. GONIN: That’s the history of the human race, isn’t it? Making fools of ourselves. You want a change, don’t you?
186. MRS. GONIN: Yes, and it should first be individually and then collectively.
187. GONIN: Yes, and then nationally and then internationally.
188. GONIN: It’s been very nice to meet you Mr. and Mrs. Marsh.
189. MRS. MARSH: It’s been very nice to meet you too.
190. MARSH: It has been more than a pleasure to meet you and seeing Dr. Rife again, it’s always a pleasure seeing him. I’ve preached an awful lot behind Dr. Rife’s back about my personal feelings about him and his work and what a terrific sin it is that it hasn’t been used at all to an appreciative amount, up until today. And I’m hoping and praying that if man doesn’t have brains enough to give us a hearing, then the next thing to do is if we know how to pray to get the Lord to help us.
191. GONIN: Now you’re on the right track.
192. MRS. GONIN: That’s where we start first.
193. GONIN: Yes, you’ll get some place then.
194. RIFE: That's the hemisphere lens. We'll have to take it out of the mount; if you get the dimensions off that you can make it up to your own dimensions. This one here you see, shows much more because it is a larger lens.
195. CRANE: You can take them out of there Doc., and I'll make these up for you.
196. RIFE: When I get around to it. It's a big job getting them out of there.
197. CRANE: Well, John is an expert diamond cutter.
198. MARSH: I have stone cutting equipment. I taught it at the University of Arizona, and I give lectures from time to time over K.O.P.O. television and I take people out in the country and tell them how they can find precious stones just lying around on top of the ground. And it's more for the fun of finding something worthwhile, rather than for the dollars involved.
I’ve cut lenses about that size for several microscopes that I made for myself. I made a three-tip microscope in examining stones for myself and I take a copper tube or a grass tube and I use diamond dust and with a drill pressing down and cut these tubes out of solid quartz and the inside of the tube, the inside diameter would be the outside diameter of the lens and I can make them any length that way. It takes a long time to drill one out. It’s a slow process. However, it is an easier way than sawing one into little squares and then making them round, you see. I could take a diamond saw and saw them into rectangular. I’m not an expert as John says because I haven’t lived that long, but I’ve done a lot of stone cutting and I don’t consider myself a learned person in it because I don’t think one ever gets to that point. A lot of the Amsterdam cutters have lived almost a hundred years and at the same time they claim they know very little about it.
They’re experts. The (word missing) brothers were the ones who had cut the Cullinand Diamond, which the Royal Scepter and the Queens Crown are the two largest and it was one of the most perfect large stones that has ever been found. That interests me a great deal because of their value in relation to what value man places upon them. It's their God. It's just like I say, it is a racket. Now I can show you a piece of Tigers Eye which is better than three pounds, absolutely flawless and they are worth an awful lot of money. Because I can slice a piece out of it a half inch long by three eigths of an inch wide and an eighth of an inch thick and I can sell it for $75 and yet out of a three pound piece which is two inches thick and about so big I could slice off thousands of them and I could get a hundred thousand dollars out of them if they could be sold in the quantity that way. Of course there is the time and effort of cutting stones isn’t really as bad as it appears. I’ve done it ever since I can remember almost. When I was seven years old I collected my first $20,000 worth in value. I kept these because I couldn’t afford the kind of machinery it took to cut them. And when I married Hilda she and I sat down and read books on the subject and she can truthfully say that she got an awfully lot of enjoyment out of those books. She didn’t know a thing after I got through reading and then I would use a cake flour that became buggy as some of the pulching compound they put on leather wheels. I was inventing all kind of ways of polishing these stones and I got $50 for the first stone I cut which was a moon stone. And then the third stone that I tackled was a pigeon ruby which a lady from Chicago had sent to tip me in New York to have it cut and they wouldn’t tackle the job because of the scratches in the top of the stone. It was a stone that was already cut and they wanted it re-cut and they sent it back to Chicago and said they wouldn’t touch it and then they sent it to the Mayors Jewelry Inc. firm in Dayton, Ohio and there in Dayton I met Charlie Gats who was the manager of the Dayton Branch. He gave the stone to me and asked me if I could do something with it and I said, sure, I cut three stones before that and I was tackling a stone which was worth about $8000, see. So I took the stone and I mounted it and with my makeshift equipment that I made, I cut the bloomin thing and it came out perfect.
Now the reason I learned later why a Tiffany did not touch it was that the cleavage point of the stone itself and the grain was running perfectly, which would have meant just one slip and you could have split that thing wide open. And so learning the terms of cleavage, I did it more by accident. I was very careful with the stone and of course it was nerve racking. It took me about 2 months to do it. Normally I could have done it in 2 days but not knowing anything about cleavage I just stuck my neck out about so far and I did the same identical thing with a star sapphire that contained a flaw and Charlie Gats said, that it was sent to Tiffany and then went to the Chicago company and they wouldn’t touch it. The flaw was right in the center of the star and it went into the center of the star and they said to cut that out you would have to eliminate the star. And so Charlie owed me some money for some previous work I had done and I was refinishing opals and things of that sort and he said “Johnny, I tell you what, for what I owe you if you give me $3 you can have this star sapphire.” It was 9.5 carats and I said, all right. I needed the money but I took a crack at that star sapphire and one Sunday I took it home and I made a box and I put a 1500 watt light under this box to chase out all light except what went up through the stone. And I looked at it and sure enough that flaw looked like it went right directly through the stone. I turned it over and I looked at it and examined it and I told Hilda, I’m going to go ahead and make a crack at this stone. So I finished it before the day was over and I got a 5.6 (carat) stone out of it, perfect with a star and a flaw with an optical illusion. Instead of the flaw going into the center of the stone, it (only) looked like it did. It went up and out like this and all I had to do was round off this one side. And I very carefully removed material and I got a perfect stone, a perfect star and a flawless one. Which when we bought a home over near where the Wright Brothers were living, that went as part of a down payment on that home. It was a $25 home and I mounted it in a platinum mounting with two triangular diamonds on the side and it went for a down payment on that home and I paid $3 plus labor for the stone originally. So that’s working out your down payment on a home. I had tackled a lot of different jobs in the racket of stone cutting.
199. GONIN: Well, that’s a difficult job.
200. MARSH: Oh yes, engraving. You know what you have here? Do you know what this stone is? Well, in normal jewelry stores they call it Stardonics, but it isn’t, it is Camillion, Stardonics is banded, this color is white. In fact I can show you some jade that I have done the very identical thing with. I have the tools for doing this kind of work. I have portum rotary tool which I can speed up to 2800 R.P.M. I have a foot regulator. That could be done very easy on a production scale by making a model out of steel and using a panagraphic instrument and you can cut a thousand of these but the first one is the deal! That’s the hard one and I have worked out methods whereby stones could be cut on a production basis very easily. A lot of them are cut that way today, if the stone comes as a constant color that the cleavage, instead of being straight, or on a straight line basis, it would be on a conclutive cleavage, now that’s a conclutive cleavage or horizontal and that is really wonderful. I enjoy things of that nature. I have done a lot of studying in my day, yet at the same time I feel I know very little about the subject because I have an awfully lot yet to learn. But I will say this I find it very wonderful and we’ve learned an awfully lot just by talking to you wonderful people. I appreciate John’s kindness in inviting us over to visit with you and thank you so very much and I hope we didn’t bore you. Well honey, shall we push off?
201. GONIN: I’ll send a few coins to the boy.
202. MARSH: That’s wonderful! Thank you very much. By the way, I’ll tell you what I’ll do in return, I’ll send you one of my beautiful jewels through the mail to your place and I’ll send it registered air mail so that I’ll know that you get it. I’m not buying your friendship, Sir, don’t forget that.
203. MRS. GONIN: No, I know. We will send you some stamps. We do collect stamps.
204. MARSH: Whatever you have that’s different that we don’t have.
205. MRS. GONIN: We have different stamps and then give them to people who tell us they are collecting them. What is your boys name?
206. MARSH: Larry Dee. We live on Garfield Avenue.
207. MRS. GONIN: Thank you; we will also put a few prayers in for the use of your instrument [Rife Machine].
208. MARSH: Happy journey back. Enjoy yourself and please live long, we need people like you.
209. GONIN: Let’s just run over this again just to see John. I start I believe with black and I leave this 2 or 3 minutes. Then first you turn this switch on Number 1. The first time that you ever start this instrument you would leave that on for one hour. Then turn on Number 2. I’ll make another starting frequency instrument [Rife Machine].
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