John Marsh
John Marsh


John Marsh's Trip To Dayton, Ohio

This trip to Ohio was made in fall of 1957. The audio tape that this transcript was taken from was recorded by John Marsh in 1957 when he returned to California to report back to Dr. Rife and John Crane. Re-transcribed by
Copyright 2008.

: Look young man you won't have any problems with the political situation here in Dayton, he said, if you can help me with this instrument (Rife Machine) as you have other people that I have heard about, I have no reason to believe that it can't. He says, as far as Dayton goes he will have no difficulty at this time. Now Jim Garrison says, you get me over this and I know some very influential people who will be very trustful in getting it here on a permanent basis. If you have any difficulty, which I doubt if you will, Bob (Dr. Robert P. Stafford) here is able to handle the situation pretty well and he being on the staff himself and well thought of, we were a little on the fortunate side to get someone who is honest.

: Oh yes.

: Incidentally he and I both belong to the same Masonic Lodge, same Temple there, and he didn’t learn that until all these treatments had been given and I did not tell him. He asked me one night if I was a Mason and I said yes. I gave proof to that effect and he said you need nothing in writing. I'll guarantee you. I'll carry this through just as we have started and he will. He's the kind of man you don't have to write down and have him sign a piece of paper whether I will or will not do this and so and that is where the enjoyment of having someone honest to work with. You don't find too many honest people that are willing to take a chance of something like this even though we know it isn’t a chance.

Carol Wilkinson, 22, one of the nurses in the Clinic has acne. She has been treated for it. What the results are I do not know yet.

Dawn Gordon, 36 years of age, another nurse in the Clinic has small nodes on her upper eye lids here. Her ear drums have been punctured thinking they could be drained. She hears noises, birds. She has not been able to have any relief. Her hearing is down to 80. She also has arthritis first in the upper dorsal, so I treated her with 85-99-91/2 27-30/3. And that is what I tried to do for her.

Edna Vanover, 43 years of age, very deep cough, she had much pain. I gave her one treatment of 85-99-91 and 88.72/2. No more treatments were necessary.

Hazel Yoeman, age 24. She had tonsillitis, acute very bad. She has had it before. Her tonsils were causing her trouble only at winter time and she took a treatment on the 13th and I gave her 85-99-91 88.75/2 and then I gave her 27- 22/3. The second day the swelling had gone down. She had swelling on both sides of her throat. She called me and said the swelling was about the size of a half-dollar. After two days it had gone down to the size of a dime and she felt no more treatments were necessary but I gave her another treatment anyway because I think the nurses in the clinic should be up to par in health, due to the fact that so much flu had been floating around. They had had an awful lot of it there. And the swelling went down after the second treatment and no more was needed.

Sandra Saxton, three and one-half years of age, daughter of Elizabeth Saxton, 31 years of age. She has a bad chest aliment, Sandra had the same thing. Chronic bronchitis and she took one treatment, no more was needed.

Dr, Stafford treated Gertrude Stafford, Dorothy Stafford, Carrie Robinson, Ann Stafford, Sue Stafford, Don & Pat Stafford. Now, those are his four children, wife, mother and a woman who lives with his mother and he treated all of them and also Skipper (the dog) he gave (a) 3rd treatment on 19th and he said there is nothing in the world that can convince me that the instrument is not what we said it was. He said, it’s not just because he can be sold anything; He's positively sure of what he had seen and that is all he had to have.

Hazel Yoeman (Nurse) Dr. Stafford was a very skeptical man and she has never seen such a change in a man in her life than she had seen in him since I came there and he said “that he had constantly felt good and that 4 hours sleep a night was all he needed and he knew he had to have eight before that he would be dragging.” He said, “even to walk up the three flights of stairs in the hospital he was winded when he hit the top because (of) many of the strenuous activities he had had the night before.” He said, “Now when I hit the top of the stairs I feel like I hadn’t even climbed any stairs”. He said, “I feel perfect” and he's felt perfect ever since he's known me and he says “if the instrument (Rife Machine)is nothing more than a physiological instrument,” of course he's said “That's a foolish statement I know but it sure has helped me a great deal”. He said; “I know the instrument (Rife Machine) does what you have stated it does”.

I treated my mother, my sister and she is going through the menopause and has had a great deal of flooding every month and she definitely feels that it has subsided since I’ve been there. I gave her the 85-99-91/2, 27-30/2 making sure I would knock out any possible chance of any infections that might be there that we do not know of. And my mother had arthritis of her knees and I was only able to give her one treatment when Dr. Stafford called off all treatments on all patients except for those we are treating until they can tabulate all that has been done up to date. He didn’t want to take on any more. Even my niece who has been having trouble and wanted treatments and who could not get them and many other people, but he felt that Tom Oswald is more behind this than Dr. Stafford when it comes to shutting them off, because there's nothing in Dr. Stafford’s mind that the instrument didn’t have all to do with it. And in every case that we have had except Dorothy Johnson I would say it was completely successful and in Dorothy's case I feel that something else was biting at her which the instrument did not reach. And therefore the reason for the stool, urine etc., test which I believe Dr. Stafford will give her because that is what I asked (him) to do in a letter that I had written to him.

Now, the hospital staff where all these treatments were given, or these two treatments, (these treatments were done on two women who had cancer) will vouch and swear as to the many, many months they were there and as to their success. Dr. Stafford, here is what he wishes to do; he wants to evaluate all the treatments that have been given. He and Dr. Oswald will do this together. I trained two nurses for the use of the instrument in case one of them would get ill and could not use it, that the other one would be available to help Dr. Stafford. I spent many long midnight hours with one of the nurses training her while Dr. Stafford was doing the same with the other nurse, so it wouldn’t have been necessary for me to stay another month in Ohio for the purpose of finalizing these treatments and their tabulation. He wants to get all of the records that he has treated from other physicians that had anything to do with them and then he wants to call the top-notch officials of the Medical Board together either at a hotel conference Room or someplace where (it) would be a good place to meet. And call in all of the patients that have been treated plus all the doctors who had treated those patients, before I got to them including the dog and then present to the board the finding, which they know I was there, but they left it up to Bob to carry it through and do all of this tabulation work. Then present it to them as a package unit on everybody and have all of the people there themselves to tell plus all of the hospital staff, plus the nurses in his own office and thus which would be the solid foundation for which they can get the O.K. of the medical board. Now in the meantime the information that John (Crane) had sent to me, the last letter that I had received from him, stating the work that he felt that I could take care of while I was there. I turned that over to Dr. Stafford and Dr. Stafford will carry it through. I'm sure he will after this meeting there speaking about.

: Where it's accepted by the county board and if it's accepted by them then the Food and Drug Act will, well it would be no chance of them turning it down. Well, that is why Dr. Stafford felt that by building up a good solid foundation, which I think is very intelligent on his part.

: Because he says “I don't want any outsiders interfering with what we have done so far until it is presentable to the board.” He said, “I know all of the Board members, I was on it myself.” Now he says; “They know me personally. I'm not talking to a bunch of strangers and they know the many years I have been in business as he is rated incidentally.” He is well liked by everybody that he has treated. I will say this, I have never heard anyone say anything foul about him. I will say this that God has sent me to the right source.

: Here is one thing that is a possibility, that was a good move on that part there. Now if it was put up to the Department of Food and Drug and they had turned it down, you see, then you would have a devil of a job getting reinstated with them again. But now that it’s established and they have it in their records and threw it in their lap and say gentleman this is it and we want you to pass this thing. So I think it was a good thing, there's no particular hurry about that, you know.

: Dr. Oswald and Dr. Stafford and I at the time I was giving Jim Garrison his last treatment, Dr. Oswald said to me, “Now John, how long would you say it would take to tabulate all of these things.” I said, “It wouldn’t be necessary for you to actually have to cure everybody completely because you can vouch as well as Dr. Stafford and the staff about the women on their upward climb out of the hospital, so that is enough to qualify them” and I said “These other people that are in the process of getting better,” I said “I think two months would be sufficient to completely draw an excellent conclusion. Two months would take us up into January from now at which time you (Dr. Rife) will be there on a specific date and talk to them. Here is the thing, Dr. Oswald and Dr. Stafford both said, I want to talk to Dr. Rife myself and I want the medical board to hear him. Now if you are drawn into the group, what they want is to hear the man.
They will throw many medical terms at you, which I know you can handle. They did it to me. I surprised myself I was able to handle the situation, very well, and I had heard you say and don't think I didn’t work hard to keep my mind alert to everything, they asked, so that I would not throw a dishonest statement to them, because you cannot build a thing up on lies. I don't want to, all I want to do is to present the truth, which I feel is what we have and that's why I went back there. That's why I sacrificed my job and my time, which was nothing. I don't feel it was a real sacrifice in a sense because of what I had done with the instrument to two people’s lives and more later on and to me those lives are worth more than my job, or money. You can't judge lives against dollars and cents and too many of us are prone to do that.

: Well, I have lived my life for the benefit of humanity and it is the end result of (the) accomplishment.

: Yes, now here is what I did tell them, they wondered where I fit into the picture. I told them I had layouts at the base, I designed part of it. You could say that I was possibly not an exactly an inventor, but I think we are all co-inventors of a sort by adding what we think would make the instrument better and if they try to validified (verify) any the statements that I have said to them, please don't let me down and say no this isn’t so, which might upset what might be the truth to them.  I mean just by accident. Now what I mean by that is this. I don't think that I have in my own right lied to them. I did (didn’t) try to impress them with the idea that I was the one that did it. I did impress that you (John Crane) and myself had worked together on this thing but that you (Dr. Rife) were the inventor and John (Crane) was the designer and inventor, co-inventor and myself for putting this thing together and making it. They asked if I helped putting this thing together and making it from time to time. I couldn’t tell them that I didn’t because if I had built up a feeling in them that I knew nothing about what I was doing, psychologically that could have torn down, or have caused delay the foundation that now is laid. Now, I think we have a solid footing there. I under no circumstances would want that torn down and I will not under any circumstances accept the credit for this instrument as being invented because it is Rife's instrument as printed on the plate in front and that is one of the reasons in building you up to them, which I don't think is unwarranted, not by a darn sight and that is why they want you there. They want to hear you talk and they also want to know your past experiences with the people of La Jolla and also was very happy to have received the papers concerning the doctor etc., because I'm sure Stafford will contact every blooming doctor that you had given to me. And I turned over all the letters to him because I didn't want anything to stand in the way if he could contact them, now whether he would do that before he would talk with the group, I do not know. I suppose he will but he wants the truth as badly as you do. Now I don't know an easier way it can be done. I don't think there is going to be an easy way to get it on but I think I've outlined this thing. I studied the moves I was going to make before I ever went there. I studied what I was going to do if I had the opportunity to do so, which I did. Now…

10. RIFE
: Did you get a chance to contact Charles S. (McKenry)

: No Sir, I did not and the reason for it was the same reason that Dr. Stafford had for not wanting to contact everybody ahead of time. Knowing that Charles is working on cancer I thought that Bob Stafford knew McKenry himself through them, and being a personal friend of Bob Stafford's, now they will contact Charles McKenry only when the time arrives to do so, which means after he has found successfully overcoming his Carcinoma case of (the) Prostrate. Now, he will be contacting John and Dr. Stafford felt that we should get all of these cases tabulated first.

12. RIFE
: You've got to have something to show.

:  By the way he will be contacted (McKenry) and the other two doctors. Dr. Stone and his son and Dr.Chittley who said that he felt that I should take the instrument to Texas and get it started there. I said, what's wrong with Dayton. Well, he said, Dayton is all right but there's more money in Texas. Well, I can understand why he wanted me out of the city. Dayton, Ohio is a very rich city to say the least.

14. RIFE
: I haven’t been in Dayton since 1912. I was there in the flood.

: Since then doctor they built all of those dams around. All of those dams now have the capabilities of holding all of that water back and is guided through regulated channels, now they don't have that flood situation any more, but those dams were huge. I used to fish over there at those dams, a lot of fish backed up in the back waters. That's the chart that I had made up John (Crane) that I gave to Dr. Stafford and one to Dr. Oswald and one to each of the nurses. I had those printed up in Dayton. Well, that is the progress that I have made so far.

16. RIFE
: Well, I think that you did a very excellent job.

: Dr. Stafford got a hold of my coat lapels, and he said, “Johnny, you go back home now,” and he said “One thing that I really want to tell you, you have done a magnificent job, and I'll say this without any question in my mind that physiologically you are the world’s greatest salesman.” He said, “When you can sell me what you have told me, without even sight unseen in the beginning. You being able to convince a person what is right and making them buy it against their will theoretically,” he said “I'll say this you have something to sell, and the fact that you came here without any money and what you did receive didn’t near pay the bills that you had” and I showed him what I had to pay and I didn’t make any money on the side as I thought maybe that I would, due to the fact that he didn’t charge a tremendous price for each treatment, until we can honestly get some answers. He said, the people that he could call in would cooperate with us, but he knew that also that they had spent out such quantities of money before for treatments and operations etc; they just didn’t have it and what he had done at the hospital. He left the two men, Mr. Bias and Mr. Cartwright paid me the money that they had promised to pay me and he did not charge them for his services at all, even to the hospital bill. The women were there all that time for nothing. Even though they have had money and could have afforded the best, ran out of money, and he was treating them for free. Now that is the kind of man Dr. Stafford is.

18. RIFE
: They get so much of these Ouija board boxes going around, you can't blame him a bit.

: There's also so much dishonesty going around. There's always someone trying to make a quick dollar, that they prey on the professional people and trying to make them believe that this and that etc., but I feel this way John (Crane) that by taking the instrument, talking to them personally about it, was the smartest thing that has ever happened. I know writing to them is going to do no good.

20. RIFE
: Well it's the end result that is the thing and it doesn’t make any difference, as I had said before, if you are going to build anything whether it's a skyscraper or a doghouse it must have a foundation and the foundation must have fundamental facts and it must be based on a basic principle. The principle of that device is a coordinating resonance, as I have spoken of before that is in resonance with the chemical constituents of a individual bacteria.

: Now Dr. Stafford gave a note here to Life Lab, this is what he wishes.

: Life Lab Incorporated, please furnish the information on the characteristics from the Rife Frequency machine, including the Phonograph records etc.

: What they want to know is John; they want to know what frequency waves it flows on, what is the carrier wave. He also wants to know if it is X-ray, if there is any radioactivity involved, of course, I know there is none. He wants it in writing from here, and the reason for that is, additional information presented. Now they are going to take a Geiger counter and he is going to check the ray himself, just for their own information. I said, fine go ahead and he is going to have the instrument checked by some leading electronics engineers not for the purpose of copy, or anything of that nature, but to see if anything would be of a detrimental nature to mankind. I said that's O.K. I said, only under your guidance do I want anyone to look at that instrument, so he gave me a contract stating that he would be responsible for all damages, replacement of tubes, wear and tear on the instrument, plus 50% of any money that I would receive for any treatments given while in my absence from there, and he didn’t feel like he would want to lease it for a month or two months because he didn’t know. He says I don't want to lease the instrument. He said, I want one permanently, but he said I don't want it permanently again until it has gone through this routine that I know that we have to go through, because he says one here in Dayton isn’t going to be sufficient. I know that it is true, they would like to have a clinic here in Dayton to carry on the work. And incidentally John (Crane) I did make some changes on the instrument in this respect, that part, the regulator, is what caused the instrument to go out, but how I do not know.But it seems to get too hot, now I only gave one treatment to each of the women at the hospital with the regulator. I don't think the ray was any different. I do believe that it was detrimental to the resistor. You know the 1000 or 1500, well, I took it out. I put in a 2500 watt resistor instead of a 1500 and it worked fine. And the blue covered the plate (ray tube electrode) completely without any regulation of any kind and it didn’t get hot, it did the job, so I replace that, I think 7.50 is what that cost. I went to the Cop Radio Lab there, which is one of the biggest there and has been there for 20 years and I took the instrument down there and he wanted to know if I had a wiring diagram of it and I said no. Incidentally I have some ideas concerning intelligence of putting this instrument out, if we would want to get to the place where we would want to put them in homes. I would suggest make the instrument, naturally we have got to make the instrument smaller. I want to redesign that darned tube, so that it isn’t fragile. Now it may not hurt to sink the metal rod coming out of the electrode and anode, sink it in solid glass, rather than inside of a tube, that may not hurt it. It wouldn’t hurt the tube at all, I don't think. Make the tube so that it will be lighter, or make a oscillator so that you could set it up and have it move like this without me having to stand there and do it. Design the instrument so that it is easy to carry around than that heavy box. It's awfully heavy. I carried it about three flights of stairs at the hospital and I think I have gained a great deal of muscle since I saw you last because I have carried it for about 4 weeks up and down stairs and stored it in a storage room at the clinic when not in use on the third floor of the clinic. And there's another thing, my cousin living in Dayton works for a big electronic firm. He has a T.V. store and repair shop and he did a lot of work for the government. Now his name is James Marsh. He and I both went over the instrument and feel that it can be made without tubes (with) transistors. And General Electric had made a transistor to replace a mercury tube and by the way I replaced those two mercury tubes (866 rectifiers) and incidentally the one tiny tube, the little peanut tube on the opposite corner was weak when I got there, so I had it pulled out and a good one put in. And I had all the tubes checked and everything and it checked out fine, even the big one and I had to go to three places before I could get the big one checked out, but none of them had the mechanism for plugging it in and checking it out, so it checked out alright and as far as the big tube it wasn’t lighting up there for a while. I'd plug it in and it wouldn’t light up, but after I had changed the resistor on the bottom it came along fine and one of the wires that you soldered quickly came loose and I soldered it and it came out just fine. I didn’t put it in the wrong spot either by the way. I checked the entire wiring and I checked the entire wiring diagram on it myself to make sure that every wire was solid. And I tell you what happened when that resistor went out the instrument was so charged with electricity and when I pulled the plug out and carried (it) down to Tops radio, the guy at Tops didn’t plug it in. We carried it in and set it on his desk and we touched that can (metal 2000 volt capacitor) and he would liked to jump clear out of his clothes. The thing was changed to full blast and it threw a spark about two and a half inches. It is now safe this I know and incidentally John (Crane) for the sake of the physician who has to take the instrument into a house on a home call I would advise diminishing the size of it. Now I have another idea and I think it is very intelligent. I’ll tell why I think it is intelligent. Design another instrument for home use to only cover the 85 99 91 bands. Anything in the cancer and tuberculosis bad cases only let the physician handle that. Now if you design an instrument that would be put into the home that would prevent the physician from a job. I have a hunch they won't buy them. Dr. Stafford is aware of this. Dr. Oswald is frightened because of the potentialities of the instrument. He said; I know what it can do. He said; see those bottles of pills up there. I said yea; throw them out, they’re no good. He said that's right. It no longer will be necessary. You are still going to have to have medical practitioners for the diagnosis of their diseases, plus the addition of vitamins etc., They are going to have to know how to build up their body so that our instrument will be able to do what it is supposed to do successfully. So, I would suggest to design a small set to only do the three for home use which would take care of colds, fungi, bacteria of a normal use in the home. Now don't let any of the cancer treatments (be) given in the home, but under guidance of a registered physician. Now that to me is a suggestion and Dr. Stafford (said) it's a very brilliant one. He said, Johnny you are a bright one. I said; put that down in writing, but anyway, Dr. Stafford is a peach of a guy, he's a human being and by the way he's a humanitarian. He fits with us like a glove.

24. RIFE
: You know we had an idea when we had our clinic in La Jolla, of course that was battery and motor generator operated, that set, you know and boy it would sure raise the devil with all the radios. So we had a couple of cars that was equipped with car radios and we sent them out and we would take the switch of that thing and had a code you know, like an S.O.S., and one of them (went) up north and one of them went south from La Jolla. Before we started in we wanted to see how far we were going to disturb things with it you know. And incidentally we had it in a steel room, a steel lined vault about this size at the old Ellen Scripps home. It was the vault in the Library of the Scripps home where they kept their valuable manuscripts and books in. All steel lined and a door on it like a safe. We had the thing (Collin B. Kennedy equipment) inside of that too, but it didn’t make much difference, but we started in and one car lost the pick up on top of Torrey Pines. And the other one half ways through Mission Beach picked it up and then they could go a hundred feet and lose (it) and then they would have to pick it up again. Old Henry, (Siner) the boy that was with us out there, one of the lab boys, boy he went up in the air. He says; “By God” he says, “Look we’re going to fix them up right. At two o'clock we’ll hook this up to a big radio station, a big transmitting station and at two o clock next week we’ll broadcast for tuberculosis and at half past three the week after we will broadcast for cancer and everybody at the radio will pick it up.” “See boy, I said, Henry that really is an idea.”

: You know what it could be done, but it is against the law because you are in a democracy and you cannot treat a person against their will and if it became a known fact, now for instance these sputniks that are flying around is against the people's will, but it is still being done, due to the fact that that stars there is being detrimental to every human being on earth, because it can land and kill them. I mean if something went haywire it could fall down and could kill them; therefore it is the liability that Russia has taken upon themselves. Well, it's the same thing with the Air Force or anything else, it’s their liability. Now with the consent of the government I told Dr. Stafford that the entire city of Dayton could be cured of all of the diseases they have at once by broadcasting. He says; now don't tell me these things. Look, I know what it can do. He says let’s just cure these people. Then one of the nurses in the office there he had a little light up on the wall, it was in a little box, and it's a devitalizer and it throws kind of a (disinfectant) out, it's supposed to prevent colds from occurring. Now this is a modern clinic, no back woods job. I said; what the dickens is that and then he told the nurse you know you really ought to have the (light turned?) on this. He said, no I think I ought to take it down and put up John's instrument all over my place. She says yes, but what are you going to do when you got people out in the waiting room getting cured while there waiting for treatment.

26. RIFE
: Well here is another idea that I had and John and I talked about it at one time and most of the surgeries now they use (word missing) and also spot lamps. No reason in the world why that can't be put through to ride over an operation and kill any infection.

: At the time the operation is in progress?

28. RIFE
: Yes Sir.

: That’s exactly what I told Dr. Stafford. You should have them in an operating room while the person is being devitalized of their virus bacteria at the time of surgery or the birth of the child, or anything else that would be detrimental to them having a clean operation without infection.

30. RIFE
: I used it over my operations on my animals. Many times I tried it. I would take my instruments; ordinarily my instruments went through the pressure sterilizer before I would use them. I'd take my instruments just through the instrument case, put this thing over my rack, or my guinea pig and operated with my instruments and never had an infection.

: And that's another thing I said to Dock, you can sterilize all your instruments here without putting them in that little steam bath that you've got here. Now where I used this instrument was inside of his X-ray room and incidentally, I meant to tell you this Mrs. Cartwright had had forty-five X-ray treatments and six radium treatments, and the last radium treatments were given to her last March. That's the 56 years old lady who had it (cancer) in her lower abdomen. Now, it did not affect the use of our instrument at all, but the radium is what Mr. Cartwright felt is what has burnt clear through the wall of her female organs into her lower colon causing so much of the damage and I wouldn’t be a bit surprised. They lowered a capsule into her womb area, which incidentally a hysterectomy had been taken care of, I mean she had all her female organs removed and (they) left (it) in there for a day at a time. I mean radium inside of her for a day and she was burned to death and she was clear out of her head and he picked (her up) bodily and took her out of the hospital and he says, they’re not killing my wife here and that is the truth. You ask him! You’ll probably get a chance to talk to him when you go back there.

32. RIFE
: Was it a cervix of the uterus?

: I don't know.

34. RIFE
: The major portion of them is a cervix of the uterus.

: Well, the doctor has all of her tabulated case history now, which he had gotten from the other physicians who had operated on her, by the way two surgeon's etc. And he felt that he should have those and also called in the surgeons to get their report. Now as far as I'm concerned I feel that what we have done was the best that could have been done under the circumstances. In fact, I think we've done better than we expected and as I have stated before everything has clicked off as though it was cut and dried and meant to be months before in advance. No one at the hospital questioned my reason for being there. There was doctors coming in and out of the same room and look at the instrument. They would ask Dr. Stafford, what we were doing. They would say; "What the dickens is that?” The doctor would tell them that it was a therapy treatment that he was giving and he would elaborate on it, which was very psychologically intelligent, then from that time forward nobody questioned me being there and often times they would address me as doctor. They didn’t want any novice floating around and it was good sense. Maybe it wasn’t the whole truth but what is a doctor, a person that administers treatment. I do know this, that as long as it does the job I don't care what they call me. Now, I tell you what I would like to do. I do want to be part of your organization. I feel it's our organization. What I would like to do is handle a portion of the U.S. if I could. In other words have a district representative if that is what you would like to call it. I wouldn’t (be) living in Dayton and covering the Eastern Seaboard. Now, Dr. Stafford doesn’t believe it's wise to contact any of the surrounding states of Ohio yet, put any of the instruments in that state yet. And the reason for that is this and I agree with him. He knows the doctors in these other states and they come to convention meetings which are held in Dayton. If it gets to one of these before it is presented as a package unit. They could upset the thing by saying it's no good. You know, without even knowing what they are talking about. Now he said, John, if you want you can put your instrument in other states. Put them far enough away until we get this thing nailed, and he is anxious to get a cure for peoples troubles and not to become a financial wizard, and I tell you why, office calls are always three dollars including shots, pills etc., so you can see he’s not out to rook people, or rob them of their money. How many doctors do know here in town that you can get by for a three dollar entrance? You can't they don't have them. Do they? I’ve never found any here or in Dayton. The least is five dollars for an office call and many of them above it, but anyway his has been three and I'm going to hold it at three, because I see no reason for robbing people. By the time I get some of them they are chopped in two, financially, before I ever touch them. And he says I don't think it is my duty to make this a money making deal. He is of course making money, but he is doing it in quantity. I feel he has got a human heart and I believe he has shown the use of it. I know Bob pretty fair. I have been with him an awfully lot, if there is anything in my mind that would give me any idea. I believe I am intelligent enough to detect any unfairness he would have in his mind. And (I) believe Dr. Oswald is as honest as they come, and Dr. Marcus is a very good man. He is rated as one of the best physicians in town, incidentally, I don’t think he is against us. I think his pride is going to prevent him from coming right out and admitting for being too quick on the draw, he's alright. He’s with us now and that isn’t all, George will be with us too. He says; I know these men, they are good honest clean men. He says George is too honest, if there is a deficiency in his account he will take it right out of his own pocket and make it up. That is how honest he is and Dr. Stafford said that is the way I want it. He is the head of the clinic and he owns the building, so those are the men that I have been associating with and to me I am glad I was a missionary to carry this great episode for the success for what we are seeking. It may have been premature in your sight but I am kinda happy that it all came about because we are never going to know what the public feels until the public knows what we have got. And the only thing that I can see is, what we will have to be careful of, that I would prefer having control of all instruments, not me but us, so that we can prevent any capitalization preventing people who need treatment who could not be able to get for lack of funds, now that is between you and me. If you have control over it, then you can control where it can be put and I think that we know more about the instrument than anyone else, therefore I think that we should have the right to repair it, install, replace at will.

36. RIFE
: That is the only way that it can be handled properly.

: Maybe we can sell small instruments for the purpose of small diseases like colds, flu and stuff like that, which are minor, which the doctors prefer not treating those kind anyway, because they are chronic and there isn’t anything they can do with them. People keep coming in and coming in and they take up his time where he could spend it taking care of a bad case or something or other. Dr. Stafford said that he would prefer that a small instrument would be made. Now he is a smart man. I mean he is smart in this respect that he is looking out for the people, as you and John and I have done. If we hadn’t I would not have made this trip. What do you think John? I’ve been doing a lot of thinking not even giving you a chance to get a word in edgewise.

: There is no doubt there is going to be an awful lot of development on this design and portable units. We had it in mind for some time to get a battery setup where you can take it out where they don’t even have electricity. We have investigated transistors several years ago in Los Angeles and they say they are not for sale. The resistors and everything else is plastic.

: You know what we did over there at Convair. You know all those plastic units.

: This again will involve a lot of funds, a lot of research involved etc.

: That is just what I told Dr. Stafford is holding us up and it is the financial end of it. We have the ideas and there is no question in his mind that we do. He said, he has run into an awful lot of intelligent people in his day, but this man is out of this world. I know that he doesn’t know me that well but he feels that the things that I had presented to him was so far superior to anything he has ever heard before in his life, and he thinks I am an escapee from another planet. Well, there may be some truth in that but at the same time I don't intend going back until I have fulfilled my mission here, so laying all jokes aside I think this trip has been one of the most fantastically enjoyable successful ones. And I knew exactly what the results would be. Now, how I knew that, don’t ask me, I just knew it. That's why I went back, that’s why I was so certain. Then too, it proved to me another thing John (Crane) that flying at a high rate of speed over bumpy and many detoured roads. Two and a half days it took me to get there, 2200 miles and when I said flying I wasn’t kidding. I knew those people's lives were hanging in the balance and I knew I had to get there. I felt safe. I felt positively that I was supposed to bring that instrument. Now, I know it just wasn’t something I cooked up and Hilda my wife knows this. I feel if the lord wanted me to bring that instrument then I don't think that the Lord would have prevented me from getting it there. He said; no, but what about some of these drunks, they can weave all over the road but when they were out I would be in. So that is the way God plans things, now, he wasn’t going to let me get there without that instrument, and safely so and then after I gave those women their first two treatments at the hospital, the first two treatments, the instrument went out the day after. And I had three days to get it fixed, see. So it only took me a couple of hours to take it down to have it gone over, checked over and the parts replaced and ready for the next treatment. So everything happened just bam, bam, bam, and there was nothing held up under any circumstance, no car trouble, no trouble of any kind. Let me tell you about an incident that happened in Arizona. They had radar traps set. I was driving 70 miles an hour in a 55 mile an hour zone and I went past two traps and the men at those traps were doing something at each time, so that they did not see me and I didn’t see them until after I looked out and saw them and I went past so fast that they didn’t even see me pass at two of the places. And then I was picked up in another little town in Arizona going 50 miles an hour in a 35 mile an hour zone right in town and the patrolmen stopped me and he came up and asked to see my card and here it was the fellow I had worked with in Plant two at Convair who had gone back to Arizona. He said how happy he was that he stopped me. He said he wouldn’t have given me a ticket if I had been going 90 through that town. And I talked to him for a few minutes and he let me go on, so the fact of the matter is, I had definitely had everything planned, everything, believe me, and yet to this day when I tell people what had happed with those radar traps they don't believe me. The cop was setting there and he had his light flashed across the road, you know, where you had to break the beam and I didn’t see either one of them until I was up on top of them and the light flashed on the inside of my car. Now that is no lie, they could have burned me, but good. I went right through Arizona and I had no cop trouble coming back. I didn’t even see a cop. I don't know where they were, maybe they were hibernating but when I got to Dayton, everything worked perfectly. And even Tom Oswald, who was against the thing in the first place and George who wouldn’t even listen to it at all, were partners in this business and the majority of the partnership did not stop Stafford from letting me give treatments. Now you tell, is it all coincidence? Is it just coincidence all of this happening? Absolutely not, everything was planned in advance and nobody can tell me different.

: We have a man coming over here this evening to do electronic work on another one of these machines. Maybe we can get another one ready. Maybe it might be a good idea to take one up there this evening.

: I definitely want to take this tape along and let him hear it. And I could take this paraphernalia here to pave a way but first I think it would be wise to have a doctor.

: They have doctors there that are willing.

: They did say they had one doctor or several, didn’t he? That's fine, I will be happy to do it. What am I going to use for money. Truthfully John, I appreciate deeply your aid, believe me; you don't know how much that aid was needed at that particular time. It was not done in vain believe me, because you are going to be more than well paid for all the kindness you have shown toward me. I think we are in this thing together. I think we all three feel the same way about the same things. Don't you John?

: Of Course.

47. RIFE
: The thing of it is, as I have often said. It requires cooperation. Now I used to go into these big hospitals and clinics you know, as a matter of fact, at Northwestern University, and Dr. Kendall and I would devoir (desire of) them maybe some tumors or something. Do you think the surgeons would give them to us? And all these different departments and so on and so forth, they hold behind their back everything. I mean one University. It would be different if it were some other University. I mean one group like Northwestern. Do you think that they would cooperate? Oh no; Now like poor old Lynnwood Walker up there at the University of California in the Hooper Foundation over in San Francisco. It used to make him so blooming mad. He had to write out about 14 requisitions a mile long to get a half dozen test tubes and a half a dozen eggs or something to make some culture out of but they spend 50 thousand dollars a year on football.

: Or they have to spend 3000 dollars for paint or what have you but they can't see putting any money toward any aid for this line.

49. RIFE
: I was there two solid weeks and old Doc. Johnson (Dr. Milbank Johnson), incidentally was up there with me at that time at the Hooper Foundation, San Francisco. That is the Bacteriological Research Department, for the University of California you know. It is over in the Hospital, out by Golden Gate Park. We were there for two weeks before we could get a tumor. They were operating on them almost every day.

: I wonder what causes people to be so stiff shirted and so hard and cut and dried that they cannot be a little bit flexible. That's humanity they say, no it isn’t humanity. Humanity doesn’t represent that which is bad. It represents that which is good.

51. RIFE
: The only hospital that I ever had any luck with (was) the County Hospital up here to get anything out of them but when Dr. Butterfield was the main Surgeon of Paradise Valley down here, he was very cooperative. I could go in there any time to get any information I wanted, you know, and he was very cooperative. I think most of those Seven Day Adventist are. He's the head of the Loma Linda Institution now.

: Well, this group of three men that John had spoke of that you are acquainted with came down here from Utah. I'll say this honestly. I think they are human beings. I think they are good at heart. I think they have a feeling, not particularly money behind them to do this, I think they believe down deep in their hearts that we've got something and I mean that. Now I was successful on selling them on the idea that we had something, or they wouldn’t have come down here in the first place, right John? You (remember) when I picked them out and brought them out here. Now I’ve been successful with most everyone I have contacted and if I believe in something Doc. (Rife) God isn’t going to make me lie to get it across. I don't have to. All I have to do is to tell the truth, which I have no problem in doing and I will say I've been successful in it there and I say more successful than I thought I would be.

: Well, we may be able to get up some funds to get you up to Utah. John, I'll think about it here for a day or so.

: Well, I think it would be a good idea. Here is the thing Doc (Rife). I'm going to have to go to work. I'm going to have to get some money somewhere because I've got some bills that are due. Well, now here my rent was due the first, what is today (the) 5th? It is 5 days past due, so I didn’t make any money on this Dayton trip, almost $300.00 was eaten up on expenses alone. I went over 11,000 miles in my car. I have almost 24,000 miles on my car already. I haven’t been on any trips except those back East. The trip was necessary.

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